Sunday Order of Play

ATP: Rome at 5 AM on Centrale - Montanes vs Gasquet followed by Volandri vs De Bakker then comes Monaco vs Seppi ending with Verdasco vs Raonic
ATP: Rome at 5 AM on Pietrangeli - Mayer vs Golubev and Kohlschreiber vs Youzhny scheduled
WTA: Madrid at 9:30 AM - Victoria Azarenka vs Petra Kvitova
ATP: Madrid at 12:30 PM - Rafael Nadal vs Novak Djokovic

first!, nevermind MA's OOP lol

is it ok to start frazzling now? pete's article has me scared of djokovic!!!!!!!!!! my poor rafaaa, i hope he wakes up in right mindframe with thinking cap well-on! he's gonna need that and more to beat incredible nole!!!

Just posted in the previous thread, and the new thread appeared while I was writing, so reposting this here:

Rafa didn't play well?

That he was able to focus on the match at all, and win it, too, was an achievement in itself. He knew Seve and admired him greatly, and knows his family. Rafa was very emotional both before and after the match about Seve. (After the Seve tribute before the match when everyone else - the audience, Rafa, Lahyani - was applauding, Roger was suffling his feet, fiddling his racquet, I guess impatient to get the match started, his focus certainly not affected by Seve's death.)
Also, Roger played pretty well.
And it was an indoors match.

So, Rafa didn't play well? BS, I say. He wasn't playing at his best, obviously, but considering the circumstances (emotional and court) and a good opponent, he still played well enough to win. He was in tears before and after, but won that match in between. Then people complain it wasn't perfect. Geez. Also, the other guy wasn't playing bad, but still lost.

I'm not scared of anything this time,my philosophy is Djokovic is on a history making trend,so if he wins, so be it,he's on a streak,hot,unpenetrable and all beautiful adjectives and attributes...lol!
I pick Nadal to win but the really victory I'm happy anout was THE MASTER did not get him on clay...

Do I get the feeling you are excited over tomorrow's match, Pete?

"the moment of payback, has arrived."

It has :
payback belongs to Nadal but The Payback is Nole's.

what do you think hurts more: Rafa's losses in IW and Miami or Novak's tears after the match in Madrid in 2008?

Wait, in what universe did Roger ever strike "mortal terror" into Rafa's heart? During the years when Roger was The Roger Federer, the only player in the field who could beat him was Rafa. Come on, Pete. Rafa has always had a tremendous amount of respect for Roger but I can't think of a time when he's ever been afraid of him.

I won't even venture a guess about tomorrow.

noleisthebest,

Payback? it hurts?. Rafa lost in IW and MIAMI because he served horrible but any tears like Nole, he just has tears when one friend of him like the Golf Champion Severiano Ballesteros has died to whom Rafa had a lot of admiration
Rest in peace Seve!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3dXao9y-S0

I don't know what to believe anymore, Nole has shattered all my doubts. These days he seems capable of the impossible, he has that aura of invincibility. So who kows, he might actually do it? That would be beyond historical. For the sake of tennis I hope he wins tomorrow.

A rather mediocre article,especially the part (in italics, for added effect) about Rafa having "mortal terror" when facing Federer - if anything it was the other way around. However, there is one really appropriate and true statement in the article:

"Nadal has the right to feel like he owns the red-tinged world. Djokovic is entitled to believe he owns the universe..."

Dr. Tennis agree with PB on this!

If Djokovic can out-position Nadal with predominantly baseline tennis it will really be something.

After Nadal's years long reign on clay, is that self-evident? Perhaps, but it does speak to what it takes to defeat Rafa on clay; no one's really done it by mirroring his game while going him one better. Soderling hit his zone and blew by a wounded Nadal at the French (no tempered shotmaking there), and Federer's Ws on clay against the Spaniard have the added and highly consequential element of his ability to play the mid and forecourt more assertively than Djokovic.

Me, I make no predictions other than to say that a Serbian win tomorrow will have to feature some truly outrageous indomitability.

How long do you play the bridesmaid? Nole (for the first time I can remember) is playing without injuries, trainers etc. Interesting that they found he had a gluten allergy. It was odd watching Federer. Like so many players his age he is just a step slower and at times frustrated like his outburst today over a call he would not have even contested in the past. Nole is interesting. Today he played as well as he needed to win judging Belluci was overmatched. I wish he would not drop first sets but as for court coverage I never saw anything like that match against Murray when they both went side to side and Nole prevailed. He is faster and fresher than Fed and I hope he gets a big win tomorrow because at some point number two has to make the big move.

I couldn't agree more with the comment about Federer acting like a wounded cat. What's gotten into him these days? He used to be so good!
Ah well, who knows. Go Djokovic! <3

I don't think that having a streak and winning a second slam on the same surface equals owning the universe.
Maybe I'm just too defensive of Fedal, but this streak of Nole's will end and he'll have to prove himself on both clay and grass (which he may well go on to do) Until then he's just the player playing the best so far this year.
I still think Nole will win tomorrow because Madrid doesn't play like 'real' clay but I'm expecting a highly contested match, 3 sets.

I don't know the stats, but Novak must have the biggest number of race points a #2 has ever had?? Since the ranking exists, I don't think that anyone has had this number of points not being #1. There must be a handful #1's who have never had the points Novak now has.

Nole is playing without injuries? what about his knee and his "withdraw" of Monte Carlo?. Then maybe he was afraid to play on clay and he needed more preparation and more training? LOL

Not to rain on anyone's parade but Nole is having a wonderful streak but hasn't really achieved much at all in the grand scheme of things. I will be much more impressed when he takes more Slams and keeps a good form for many seasons. I'm just not feeling any Armageddon vibes from this encounter lol however interesting it is!

Also I don't think Rafa has ever been terrified of Fed. More like Fed's terror of Rafa grew gradually and by now he just lays down and dies

"and by now he just lays down and dies"
LOL! Poor Feddy... No worries still time to get his revenge in Rome (says me in somewhat delusional fan tone?)

haha,I'm liking all the points of views ans stuff but boy the outsatnding one that I can't get over is that Nole is on a streak and I know some people think it's silly but to me it is what it is!Nole is making history,there's no way he'll loose before next Australian Open,period!

Bodo says:

"How does Rafa feel, seeing the guy who once struck MORTAL TERROR in his heart play like this?"

Please, everybody, LOL.

If Novak wins this I'll have to change my moniker to "noleisthebest".

Aube,
You're too funny!!! I guess we'll have a grand slam winner after all those years! LOL

How about the Heat and the Lakers? How's your household managing?

all right,now time to watch the Boston Celtics!

Aube, then under your point of view, Nole will win tomorrow, Roma, RG and Wimbledon? LOL LOL LOL

hahaha x-fan,had to say soemthing funny to unwind...my household is good,Hubby is less threatened now since his nemesis the lakers are down...I'm loving it because he doesn't have those heated arguments with my bro in law no more...Lakers have kind of tone it down for us and it's Peaceful...Yeah!

Yeah, let's go to watch the Heat!!!

Aube,
Oh that's good. Seems like your bro in law is a reasonable fan, some out there still believe Lakers are going to win afterall :)

indeed Carol,it's hard to believe now until it unfolds on our very eyes,and please don't no one chase me down tomorrow if anything goes astray as you do to soem people here,triple lol!

Tuulia - don't you worry - Tom Tebutt got Rafa's emotional agnst.

"with Nadal not quite at his best, possibly because of the news of the death of Spanish golfing great Severiano Ballesteros."

See? He managed to asterisk the one set Fed DID get by playing the 'all broke up' card.

It would be nice if Roger's shoulder pain was given as much deference as Rafa's emotional pain.

OR - we could go with what Andrew said:

"even if something did feel sore, no excuses, no asterisks...."

Funny how that only ever seems to apply to Fed though. And Andrew - you might want to drop a line to your semi colleague, TT, about it.

arbiter, if I am not wrong, novak had over 10,000 points at some point in 2008 after AO, which accounted as 5,000 under old ranking system, while being ranked third!

x-fan,heck Kobe himself says there're going to win,tell you what,I want buy into that one as I bought into Nole not loosing until AO 2012,lol!

Aube,
LOL!
At this point, Nole getting his grand slam this year seems more probable than the Lakers coming back from 0-3. I think they get swept by Dallas but we gonna see no?

Nadal is a total hypocrite

He watched the video on the Spanish deceased golfer at the start of his match with Federer. He wiped away tears
Then, after it finished he bounced, hopped all over the court for the coin toss.
If we are in tears over a death, we do not have the sensitivity to bounce!!
He is a well coached, managed, media darling. I think, a phony person.
However, I concide, he is a great player, plastic though he is as a person

I didn't have time this morning to watch Rafa/Fed match so now I'm watching it and at the same time the Heat/Celtics game too, crazy time!

As for the final, count me in the 'got no idea who will win' column. As I said on the last thread...while both Novak and Rafa have played very well at times, neither has looked invincible. (Well, Rafa did against Llodra...but still) Both guys seem to be having bouts of low gas tank. Novak's extra time on the court may come back to bite him, but clearly this is the clay court for him to get a win over Rafa. Question is., will he?

Claire - he is still rather good. and maybe he WAS wounded, ya know?

Here is the thing:

If the "Nadal On Clay" fort falls tomorrow, none of us will be able to pick the moment when Nole would finally lose a match based on any kind of logic. It will become just a lottery depending on laws of probability (and not on any tennis related expertise). Plus, that state of affairs will remain even after the first loss: Nole would lose a random match here and there, but we would have to wait to find any pattern in it. That, my friends, would be mind boggling.

If Rafa prevails tomorrow, our tennis logic will remain worth more than just making a lucky pick.

temes - nope - he stands up and dies. ;-) If he was going to lie down and die he never would have come back in that first set.

john smith - and Hewitt and Roddick have never had that many points, yet they have been #1 (probably some other former #1's too).

bingo x-fan,but hey it's all good !I like tall orders at times and let's see if Lakers are all that...would be magnificent indeed,however very "dommage" for Dallas,could you believe?

I see Pierce is giving it all already,hum,Go Boston!(hubby won't read this!)

temes - ps - plus, lying down and dying was SO Miami. This was Madrid. :-)

Aube,
Well not meaning to take credit away from Dallas but I'm putting most of this on the Lakers.

Good start for Boston!

Completely forgot about the match.....

As far as ATP ranking points, I hope folks around here realize that the point system was greatly changed 2-3 years ago.

When comparing the points Rafa had as a number two 4-5 years ago with what Djokovic has now, or the points Hewitt had as a number one, a conversion factor (2?) has to be introduced into the calculations.

Having watched every single match of the streak since Davis Cup, and even the Hopman Cup wins, Armageddon is having to work while this final is being played tomorrow!

Bitter, Liz? You forgot to add that Rafa is a WINNER!

This is Nadal's 4th consecutive Masters series final, correct?
I think it's his personal best.

Are you on target, Liz?
Go, girl.
Nadal is a hypocrite
I, too, am so tired of his fake comments when he wins, and his ailments in the few times he loses.
Gone on the days when the players rise or fall on objective performances

I agree Nadal is a phony. Yes, he is an all time great champion, ON THE COURT
I guess I am old fashion, because I want honest people off the court.
On that level, Nadal does not measure up.
Rafa, Please, no more tears for the golf player who died if you need to bounce and jerk around 2 seconds later.
Those of us who have genuinely lived through the death of people who mean something to us, know that we cannot bounce 2 seconds later

I'm watching Boston and I don't see the stadium as green as Dallas was blue yesterday,I think Mark Cuban may be handing free blue shirts to anyone that holds a ticket to their arena,every single person yesterday was weraing a blue shirt over their wear...
anyway Boston is flapping wings big time!!!

Oh that was painful to watch. Why would the coach and Shaq think that was a good idea??

exactly x-fan,just why?

Boston is wheezing their way to a third straight loss.

Although I've already seen the Rafa macth I switch to tennis channel again because I'm not watching Boston doing silly things after such an emphatic start...na-han!

Arun - correct. Its a personal best for Rafa.

I feel like I saw a different Fedal match than everybody else. The first 8 games were complete trash. But then I saw Fed redlining his game for patches, especially his backhand forcing Rafa to vary his tactics a lot more. Fed was doing a good job of pressuring Rafa's backhand. And while Rafa wasn't flawless, he is playing pretty well, better than at MC and Barcelona which is good for him. In the long run, this will serve well for Fed on other surfaces where the bounce isn't that uncomfortable. I hope we get Fedal grass part 4 on Wimby Sunday. Also draw Gods, I want my Fed-Nole RG semis.

I didn't see the Bellucci-Nole match. Sounds like I missed a good one. Haven't seen much of Nole playing so can't comment on tomorrow. From the scoresheet, Ferrer and Bellucci were able to push him which is a good sign for Rafa who plays a better version of their games. But Nole has uber confidence and Rafa hasn't found his consistency yet. It will be interesting to see what happens.

Deeps,
Great post!
And I add my petition to the draw gods for another Fedal Wimbly final!!!

There is some disagreement around here about the quality of Rafa's play in the Federer match.

Rafa was very critical of his own play. But, what does he know?

When he was interviewed after the match, Rafa made the following comments, among others (somewhat loosely translated).

Rafa won despite not playing his best version of his tennis. The match wasn't the best tennis for either Rafa or Federer. Both Rafa and Federer committed more errors than is usual for both players.

In the first set, Rafa should have gained a second break before Federer started playing more aggressively. (Rafa doesn't attribute not getting that second break to bad luck. What's left in this case? Rafa didn't mention Federer's good play.)

Early in the match, Rafa played too far behind the baseline. He wasn't hitting his own shots deep enough into Federer's court. When Federer started playing more offensively, there wasn't a space for Rafa (presumably because of Rafa's poor court positioning).

The closed roof initially made it more difficult than normal for Rafa to see the tennis balls.

The difference between good players and the best in the world is that the latter win when they are playing poorly.

http://www.marca.com/2011/05/07/tenis/masters_1000/1304793691.html

Perhaps Rafa played a good match by his normal standards and he has no clue about what was going on.

Did Rafa play a good match in light of the fact that he knew Seve and his family and appeared to be upset by Seve's very recent death?

I can't address that question with any expertise, so I don't try to provide an answer. Others, of course, can opine to their hearts' content on this matter.

The other thing that is noteworthy is that the TennisTV commentators have now made it a habit to distinguish surfaces when referring to the win-loss ratio between Nadal and Djokovic. However,they make no such distinction with regard to the Federer/Nadal rivalry.

Regarding tomorrow's match, Nadal in 2 long sets.

Liz, Max and Edie. You sound like the same person. And probably are. How sad.

"Liz, Max and Eddie"
Sounds like the name of a cartoon :)

I am sure that all of us have lost those very very close to us at times and we have had to go to work the next day. Why all this tear jerking about a second rate golfer who happened to croak. Real tragedies occuring every day in this world surely top this. I am fed up with pampered athletes being afforded this special consideration.

MSF
LOL
I remember someone mentioning that Nadal had said he was satisfied about his play at some tourney (don't remember which one) and you were quick to point out that what players say means nothing!!!

x-fan,not granted!lol! you just want to sabotage my prediction of Nole's calendar grand slam...

Good or bad sign for Miami that Anthony is the lead scorer so far?

Aube,
Guilty as charged!
I'm a Fed fan first but a Fedal fan overall! Nole comes at a distant third.

x-fan,
I'd say Lebron is playing well though - very resourceful in enabling the others score.

Pete,

The one thing I don't get with the wounded cougar metaphor is that Federer played quite aggressively today. He was willing to, as Brad Gilbert tweeted, "litter the stat sheet" with 37 winners and 45 errors. On the final break point he failed to convert at 3-5 in the third, he went for broke on a second-serve return, but Nadal hit an above-average body-jam serve with some bite.

The wounded cougar metaphor makes sense in that Federer is not mentally liberated. On many break points or other key turning-point occasions, Federer tightens up against Rafa in ways that don't emerge versus other men not named Djokovic or Murray, who can also shrink the court with their defense.

The thing Federer needs to embrace as he enters "old man territory" (the big three-oh in August) is that he's now playing with house money, and that Rafa and Djokovic are the ones expected to win. Federer needs to translate that into psychological freedom, and until he can, he's going to squeeze the stick too tightly... at least, often enough for some break points to go begging. Rafa and Djokovic obviously win/earn most of the break points Federer loses - you won't win all or even most BPs against elite players - but mental freedom would take today's 2-for-11 stat on break points and turn it into, say, 4-of-14.

Fed needs to maintain a champion's pride but balance it with the realization that, as much as the press (en masse) is always writing about his decline/end/fall/etc., he is now the one who doesn't have to prove himself to anyone but... Roger Federer.

When Fed crosses this mental chasm, he can still produce magic against the two men who have surpassed him.

I think I'm going to petition a plea in here not to answer anything outrageously provocateur,insulting,mean and degrading even if it is directed to the players,(especially when they are drive by posters)after all there's a level of decency that this Tennis Board holds compare to numerous others!

Arun,
As per usual with LBJ. For all the criticism he gets people seem to forget his overall contribution, not limited to scoring. Btw Wade just took over as lead scorer.

Matt: Great post. As usual.

Tomorrow the match will belong to Rafa.

msf,
There is a medium between Rafa played like utter crap and he played vintage Rafa tennis. I would say Rafa is at the medium. He has higher gears but today he played better than 2 weeks ago. If you want the negatives, his return of serve was utter crap, his forehand did not seem to have as much penetration as he would want and his net play was awful. His court position improved with the match but even to the end he was standing too far behind the baseline when returning serve giving Federer too much time.

Same thing with Federer. He had the right tactics and went for the right shots but the execution wasn't there enough. He executed enough and even redlined in patches to give Rafa a lot of trouble much more than a 6-1 second set suggests. But in the end he missed at too many important moments.

Aube,
That's always been my policy: ignore, ignore...

x-fan: No kidding. There seems to be a general schadenfreude and/or insecure feeling re LBJ's and the Heat's progress, which I'm not all too keen about. :)

x-fan:

If you are not actually hoisting me by own petard, you may be coming close.

You may want to keep the following words (including those in the last sentence) by Ralph Waldo Emerson in mind:

A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern himself with his shadow on the wall. Out upon your guarded lips! Sew them up with packthread, do. Else if you would be a man speak what you think today in words as hard as cannon balls, and tomorrow speak what tomorrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict everything you said today
__________

Bottom line. When I believe players are making sense, I'll quote them. When they stop making sense, I attack their positions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUjjFETMTxE

http://www.skysports.com/video/inline/0,26691,12611_6919650,00.html

Nadal's interview from sky sports; sorry I dont know how to do the tiny thing.

Now i understand why the black ribbon on Nadal's shirt. I did not know about Seve Ballasteros' passing until I read it here . Of course , he would be mourning the death of a great spanish sports star.
May he rest in peace .
I watched the Nadal match , and I did not think he played poorly - ( if he did , I wish I could play so poorly ) but anyway , I thought Federer just put together some fabulous tennis at the end of the first set to take it away from Nadal.
But , as we have seen before , maintaining that level and attacking style of play over a sustained period on a clay court , no matter the altitude or relative quickness of the clay court , is damned near impossible . Even for Federer .

I did not see any of the Djokovic match . Sounds like it was another good one - and congrats on the continuation of his winning streak .
As a fan of Rafa , I hope the Nole streak ends tomorrow . As a fan of tennis , I hope the two of them can come somewhere near playing the quality of a match they did the last time they played on this court two years ago. That would be awesome !

In more pressing issues - what the heck happened to Moya's hair ? It looks poofy .
And on to Rome - starts in earnest tomorrow . With Richard playing Montanes - and Real tennis , part deux - starring Verdasco and Milos Raonic. :) Shame we won't get to see either of those on a tv screen.

MSF
Chilax Ok?
I was pulling your leg. I just found it funny that's all. I couldn't care less either way.

Beth,
Count me as wanting to see a classic tomorrow but I still want Rafa to win, even if it means Ladyjulia will take over in our personal record :)

beth,
Real tennis part two won't be on TV? Crap. I badly wanted to watch that.

This is why I want Rafa to win. Because then I win the unasterisked pool. Nothing else matters. :)

I remember that match between Rafa / Nole
I was supposed to meet Jenn for breakfast at our favorite meet up spot in Manhattan Beach - and we kept calling each other
" have you left yet ? - nope , cannot leave the tennis "
We wound up eating breakfast at about 11:30 in the morning

deeps - nope , no coverage of Rome on tv until Monday :(
not sure about streaming internet coverage

Just watching the post match interview with Rafa on the ATP site

Interviewer: "Is Djokovic getting closer to you?"

Rafa: " No he is not closer to me, he is better than me, he is the favourite tomorrow"

LOL.

"He executed enough and even redlined in patches to give Rafa a lot of trouble much more than a 6-1 second set suggests. But in the end he missed at too many important moments. "

deeps: Word. He had at least one break point in EVERY service game of Nadal in that second set. Missed them all of course. And 0/7 on break points in sets 2 and 3 put together. Tsk Tsk.

beth: Gasquet vs Montanes 1st round. A rough path ahead.

If Nadal plays his best tennis tomorrow, he'll win 3 and 4.

" No he is not closer to me, he is better than me, he is the favourite tomorrow"

I wonder if that makes him phony or candid? ;-)

Ok I better stop my clowning around before I get in trouble with people who may not appreciate my personal brand of humor!!

What a great points from Rafa on the third set !

Vamos Wade, you're the best!

true ,Arun
not the easiest of matchups
but Montanes has not been playing his best of late

of course, neither had Gimeno- Travers - so I am not counting on anything
I just hope he shows up mentally
and AM is there with our cattle prod - so maybe she can force some sense into the young man :)

Nam1,I like how Rafa is tansfering the pressure,hahah,he's better than me,Djoko won't buy it

x-fan:

Chilax?

I was amused by your post and generally happy when given a reasonable opportunity to bring excellent sayings and Tina Weymouth into a conversation.

or at least , if she sits behind the baseline ,
she can force him forward into the court

That is what I meant with my comment there

Clearly , I need more wine
or , less

Rafael Nadal could talk about Gimeno-Traver and tag him to be a favorite in their match up.
I never get tired of it. :D

If Rafa is as phony as he is made out to be, he is not only the number one tennis player, he must be an Academy award calibre actor as well.

:))

MSF
Ok. I usually read a lot of negativity/aggressiveness in your posts but perhaps it's my own misinterpretation?

Boston turning things around again!

Go Djoker, overrule them all!!!
I' think that nobody plays better tennis ever than this Nole played from the beginning of the year. It seems that he is a rubber man with tiger's reflex and eagle's eye! Watch Nole's highlights 2011 on youtube and You'll see why! This is the time of a big tennis precession!

They are still in the beginning of the third quarter..........

sometimes Rafa does seem to go a bit overboard with this "he is the favorite " talk
but hard to argue the false modesty here , given that Nole has yet to lose this year - and has beaten him in two consecutive finals .
Still , it can all change on a clay court , ya know

Oh wow what did Wade do to Rondo?

Wade's personal foul? It was Rondo's fault !

Matt Z - what you wrote makes perfect sense for me and thee and those on or under the couch in the living room. But Roger is the one who has to go out there and play. And win. Because if you don't win, they won't let you play.

Aso, though I agree with you on how Fed tightens up against players who can shrink the court on him, he is already, on some level, playing in a match he can't win. He is playing a match against any random opponent where his tennis has to match an idea that only exists in his Mirkaland on The Radio head, of what tennis should be. What HIS tennis should be.

Put that all together and I think you will find a man hard pressed to ever feel like he is playing with spare change in his pocket, let alone house money.

One note from Fed's presser...when he noticed and was duly amazed at how far behind the baseline Rafa was receiving serve...well, doh, Fed, maybe you should have changed your serve tactics when you cottoned on to that? You did when Muzz retreated way behind the baseline to receive at the USO and AO. And even when the youthful and gluten encumbered Novak would dip back there now and then. And quite effective it was. But no, you just followed the same old tried and true and lost. For a mostly smart guy, Fed you are one right doofus at times.

Rondo went over Wade trying that he couldn't get the ball and both fall down on the floor