Seems like I might be the first Pete.
Indeed sad story but familiar story of how money takes over relationships, no matter whether you believe Arantxa's or Marisa's side of the story (who released a paper statement today contradicting her daughter's claims).

Thanks for shining a little bit more light on this story, Pete. When I first read the report a couple of days ago, I found myself having conflicting feelings. Could it be that the beloved Arantxa was another victim of over-controlling, even criminal parents? It's a lot to take in. But then I also remember wondering why she would take on the Fed Cup captaincy. There's just so much missing information that it's difficult, and too early, to form solid thoughts just yet, let alone opinions.

Typical journalistic failings of modern media. Can't wait to just jump on the bandwagon without any research, rational thought or reflection. Anyone with an iota of common sense would call this tale about the "evil mother" for what it is: garbage.

Not trying to judge anyone though and Arantxa might well be right. Just a few days back, it was Claudia Khode Klisch (remember her) filing for bankruptcy and accusing her step father for her current state and now Arantxa.

You know, WTA should give a mandatory (not just offer) financial and business classes for all the young players out there rather than concentrating on their looks and ad campaigns but then when you are young and travel around the world, you rely on your parents for most of the things rather than some official or agent out there and which youngster will be willing to spend time on understanding financial management when they spend hours on court to improve their tennis skills.

I also think that something should be done to advise these young players of their financial rights.

Pete

Thanks

I share the opinion of Slice.There is missing information and I am not in the position to form any opinion as yet.

Arantxa should read Seles' book- Get(ting) a Grip!

Bodo, [mod-edited]:

Spaniards have been including their mother's names in their legal names for centuries. There is nothing "pretentious" about Arantxa using "Vicario" in her name. As far as the alleged hyphenation, that hyphenation isn't included in the WTA's main listing of ASV's name or in the U.S. or Spanish Wiki titles in their articles on ASV.

What are you prattling about regarding ASV's brother Emilio? The guy reached No. 7 in the world in singles and No. 1 in the world in doubles without any huge weapon that one would expect a No. 1 singles player to have. Considering ESV's talent level, he got about as much out of his game as one could reasonably expect.

Another very poor submission from you.

"Arantxa Sanchez officially added a hyphen and her mother's maiden name (Vicario) to her own. Some rolled their eyes; it seemed a pretentious thing to do"

You should qualify who do you refer as "some" in your sentence above, Bodo. Most likely it is just you. You should have noted that her brothers also use Vicario (check their Español wikipedia pages) and you don't seem to characterize that as pretentious in your text?!

On the other hand, checking Spanish (original) wikipedia pages for Spanish players would constitute a serious journalistic investigation - who needs that...

msf - I'm with you on this. I remember reading at the time that Arantxa's adding her mum's name was common practice in Spain...Here in India, many people tack on their village names.

Isn't the Parera in Rafa's full name also his mum's maiden name? Nothing pretentious about it, unless you want to detect pretention, and thereby display your ignorance of / unconcern about the ways of the rest of the world. Maybe we should respond likewise and say 'typical Yank' but we won't (oops...I just did!)

All in all, sad to hear this story. I was thinking the other day that somehow, Arantxa had all but disappeared off the radar, which was a pity considering how good her career was. Not happy that she's back in the news in this manner

I wonder how pretentious Pete thinks Maria-Jose Martinez-Sanchez's name is? ;)

This is sad, and doesn't seem inherently implausible to me, it wouldn't be the first time that parents have mismanaged earnings - although I guess with all of the miscommunication/family misunderstanding/bitterness to be worked through, it seems unlikely we'll ever know every detail.

Reading about how hard Arantxa was to interview I wonder if there isn't a bigger story about how tennis can consume and sometimes destroy the people playing it.

Arantxa has more than four singles grand slam titles on her CV - 10 more slam titles in doubles and mixed doubles, a brilliant Fed Cup record and four Olympic medals should be mentioned too.

"Energiser Bunny" is on my list of tennis clichés that need to be retired - sorry, Pete, but we just hear it too often. :)

One of the first things they teach you in the ATP is where to find a legal place of residence so you do not have to pay taxes. Robin Haase mentioned that there was a seminar all the young players are given. It is not intensive but it takes a few days or so: these are for players who do not have full fledged federations around them so the ATP gives legal guidance/ taxation stuff.

If everybody played for their REAL place of residence, Monaco would win the Davis Cup and the Fed Cup every year.

"But the term that fit her better than "tomboy" was idiot-savant."

1) Pete are you unaware of the fact that the term you used to describe Arantxa Sanchez Vicario is considered offensive and derogatory by many of those who are in the position to diagnose the condition and those who were labeled with it.

"I honestly believe it was impossible to interview Arantxa, who seemed incapable of paying attention to a question and giving any kind of thought whatsoever to the answer. Whatever she was asked, she muttered a few simple platitudes while her eyes darted around, planning her getaway."

2) Might one ask if you were interviewing in her first language or were you asking her questions in English? And if you were interviewing her in Spanish how good is your mastery of that language?

I recall Rafael Nadal being interviewed in English (about doping rumours) and thinking that he sounded evasive and wondering if his constant repetition of platitudes might indicate that he was trying to hide something. And then I heard him interviewed in Spanish and it was as if he were a different man.

Even Roger Federer, who many think of as "just naturally good at languages" comes across somewhat differently when speaking English, French and Swiss-German.

3) "This isn't merely a journalist's beef, either; it pointed toward something inchoate in the woman herself. It seemed almost pathological and made you wonder, "Is she hiding something?""

Perhaps what she was hiding was how bored and irritated she was that yet another person was asking her the same questions (in a language she didn't "think in".) Perhaps she thought your questions boring, repetitive, intrusive or rude.

Yes it's sad.

Coincidental that this story is coming to light at the same time as the one about Nadal and his taxes. In Nadal's case it's clear from his book that he delegates all financial planning stuff to his dad, but it's come back to embarrass him a bit as his dad maybe got over-ambitious in trying to protect the money and set up all these strange "companies" in the Basque region which are now being investigated. But goodness knows if I were that age and making that kinda money I'd trust my parents with it too.

(Btw, echoing all the above comments about the ignorance on display in this column regarding Spanish culture and names)

Sad story as to any family's that can not get it together and enjoy fully what a career like that of Aranxta Vicario had offered her in exchange to what she offered the tennis world, but instead tear each other, air the dirty laundry out and inevitably hurt more than itself in the process!

Up untill I read this, all I heard was she was a talented,hard working tennis player...

jewell,thank you for adding to the list of her achievments as I did not know about all those olympic medals she piled up,what a champion!

I hope some day the family gets together again,weigh what is important,leave out what's not and come together as one again for no matter what you said MONEY AND FAME are GUESTS,FAMILY will always STICK AROUND when all that is no more...

Stories like this make me sad,for most of my family members are scattered around the world and we don't get to always fully live the bond we would love to cherish...sad!

The financial aspect (true or note) is sad, indeed. Even sadder for me are Pete's observations (founded or unfounded) of Arantxa as "simple-minded" and "idiot-savant." Minor point, but I hardlly think of "Arantxa" as the Spanish equivalent of "Jane."

I wish her well as Davis Cup captain.

Another parent from hell story. Welcome to professional tennis.

note = not

Colette is jane Smith theone I saw in recent interviews at the AO?I think I asked who she was and Madame President said she was british or is she not?

The other thing that makes me sad on this thread is the sentence whereby Pete said Aranxta despite all the prize money she won said I have nothing
for someone who spent so much of her life pleasing public and entertaining the world having nothing now is not even close to fair!

Aube, that's Sam Smith

Thanks Colette,and good day!

meanwhile,Pironkova is doing her thing on LI in Paris again,I guess she can really out do great players

Pete, if you also find it just perfect that a woman loses her name as soon as she marries a man (that one IS indeed surprising for us!), then it's normal that you find it pretentious to add your mother's surname to your name. But don't judge others' cultures by your own's.

P.S. By the way, any Spaniard already has their mother's surname as their official second surname (or first, if they decide to interchange the order). What Aratxa did was just "link" or "attach" her already official second surname to her first surname, so the compound Sánchez-Vicario becomes her official first surname. In that sense, the hyphen story, literally written or not, makes sense.

P.P.S. My name is Felipe Jiménez Hernández Montalvo Marín Montalvo Calvo García Varea... sounds pretentious? My father's and my mother's surnames alternate each other ad infinitum, that's just the system over here.

And, speaking of corrections ... make that Fed Cup captain! (lolololol)

I have just seen a couple of youtube videos of Arantxa being interviewed (in Spanish) and she does not sound inarticulate at all.
Pete, really, what where you thinking when you wrote this crap?

I don't think it's correct to bring here the Rafa issue about the taxes. First at all because it's just a gossip but nothing still real (just a politic issue). Second, to say something about his father over-ambitious is to say something about YOU DON'T KNOW. Third, Rafa is one of the few "rich" players that has the decency/honesty to live in HIS COUNTRY and to pay the taxes, there is nothing to embarrass him

Arantxa is brave woman to tell all about her family but probably she has got a lot of money for it;-)

Carol amigaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa,hola,come esta?
yeah!

My main memory of ASV's mother is seeing her sitting dutifully in the standsat every one of Arantxa's matches.(Once, in Philadelphia, I watched her holding ASV's dog through the whole match.)

Unlike Monica Seles's mother, who had a notebook in which she seemed to write notes for every point played, Arantxa's mother simply watched her daughter closely; and her main job seemed to be to confirm for Aranxta, via a bow of her head,that out calls against her were really out calls. ASV seemed to have doubts about the correctness of 90% of the out calls unless she had hit the ball into the stands or the potted plants.:)

My main memory of ASV was something that I mentioned on TW recently: She is the only player I can think of (remember, this is based on MY tennis viewing experience) who NEVER seemed to give up or adopt a "what the heck, I don't care anymore" attitude, een temporarily, during a match. She did, indeed, remind me of the Energizer Bunny at times.

I'm sorry to hear about her troubles, whatever the whole truth of the situation might be.

this is a sad story. somehow it doesn't make sense as told, but just a terrible, regrettable situation.

pete, just as an aside, it seems like every other article you mention someone's listed height and say they look shorter. I recall you literally belittled christophe rochus in debunking his doping allegations. do you have an obsession with (lack of) height?

Li Na retires with a back injury.

Ruth, sorry, the other day I left and when I came back you were not there any more.
The original pic is where it used to be, i.e. at crazyone's flickr page: http://flic.kr/p/56DudR
(By the way, it's a long time I don't see crazyone around :-(
Give me a few minutes to show you a more recent pic if you want.

If he thinks those names are pretentious he must love me.

Hey zengggggggi

I just read your e-mail. You're one of a only a handful of
people who understood that piece of music. Go directly to the
head of the class and preen. I'll be doing the same. You said,
"Wow!" I'm so pleased there's only one word. CREAMY! I wonder
what NP would think of it? He might actually know what those
strings are. I never got the title.

A great thing to wake up to. You've made my day!

Aube mon amie, I'm ok but very busy with the visit of my family from NY. They will stay here until next Monday. Maybe I post sometimes but if not I'll "see" you next week

[OT] Ruth, this is now:
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/gj9bRNwd5KTr5VS3221K1YvMZ8Q5lxMwz2UgGG8uWzM
(You might find the figure caption too pretentious --consider it a cultural thing ;-)

I see many others have already correctly commented on the fact that Arantxa adopting her mother's name is a normal tradition in Spain. Suffice to say, I agree that it so.

She was one of my all time favourite players and I will be very sad if this story turns out to be true but it's too soon to judge on the little information that we have.

there has not been much talk about the olympics where i am with friends and family...starting to get excited though
it is really interesting with the cut offs and itf places...
i feel really sorry for the injured players who should be ranked higher but are not...who are at the mercy of the itf...including dellacqua...
and li na retired??? she must be labelled as a head case and mental right???

Davis Cup (Friday - Saturday - Sunday)

Spain vs Kazakhstan (8 AM - 9 AM - 8 AM)
Almagro, Granollers, Ferrero and M Lopez vs Kukushkin, Golubev, Schukin and Korolev

Austria vs Russia (8 AM - 8 AM - 7 AM)
Melzer, Haider-Maurer, Peya and Marach vs Bogomolov Jr, Youzhny, Davydenko and Kunitsyn

Canada vs France (5 PM - 5 PM - 5 PM)
Raonic, Pospisil, Dancevic and Nestor vs Tsonga, Monfils, Benneteau and Llodra

Switzerland vs United States (7 AM - 8:30 AM - 6 AM)
Federer, Wawrinka, Chiudinelli and Lammer vs Fish, Isner, Harrison and M Bryan

Czech Republic vs Italy (10 AM - 9 AM - 7 AM)
Berdych, Stepanek, Rosol and Cermak vs Bolelli, Bracciali, Seppi and Starace

Serbia vs Sweden (8 AM - 8 AM - 8 AM)
Tipsarevic, Troicki, Bozoljac and Zimonjic vs Ryderstedt, Bergman, Prpic and Lindstedt

Japan vs Croatia (10 PM Thursday - 10 PM Friday - 10 PM Saturday)
Nishikori, Soeda, Ito and Sugita vs Dodig, Karlovic, Veic and Zovko

Germany vs Argentina (8 AM - 8 AM - 7 AM)
Mayer, Kohlschreiber, Petzschner and Haas vs Chela, Monaco, Nalbandian and Schwank

"Neither of those boys ever came within sniffing distance of a Grand Slam singles title; Arantxa, by contrast, won four"

When people say something like this do they really believe it's valid, or are they just helplessly addicted to some feeling being PC gives them.

I meant to say what Ruth already said so well, so here goes: "I'm sorry to hear about her troubles, whatever the whole truth of the situation might be."

jewell, I agree with this comment you made, and I wonder this with efforts other than tennis too: "...I wonder if there isn't a bigger story about how tennis can consume and sometimes destroy the people playing it."

Oh, Kwaku, thank you for the new picture of Kofi.He has grown from a cute little fellow to a handsome young man. I loved being able to get those TW family pix at crazyone's site (didn't even realize that it was still accessible), and I miss seeing her here at TW.

Carol, sorry I offended you but I thought the story did relate in terms of players trusting their parents to handle financial affairs when maybe the parents' decisions aren't always perfect. Regarding Rafa, there were reports in the Spanish press about various companies Rafa's father set up for him the the Basque region. That's not gossip, that's true and acknowledged by Rafa's team. Whether the companies were set up to reduce his tax burden and whether there was anything improper is still unknown, but it's a matter now being pursued by the Spanish press and I would think not great publicity for Rafa.

Of course what you write is true that it's to Rafa's credit he's not hiding out in Monte Carlo (or Andorra, lol) like some others.

I wasn't really criticizing Rafa, more making the point that it's tough for these young people to always be on top of whatever arrangements their parents are making with their money.

well some may find it charming a 25 year old man lives at home and still has an 'uncle toni' but perhaps the charms of these kinds of close families also contain a flip side, as it seems poor Aranxta lived with, if this is indeed a true tale...

being 'close' for some families also means toxic and unhealthy, with no independent identity, nothing close about that its just suffocating... anyway, who knows what really is true, but all that money, gone? just hard to imagine, and why wont her mother give her some of it? talk about nutty...

I hope we get a real followup on this story. I was very fond of that spunky little player but her mother acted like an old fashioned chaperon seemingly unable to let the girl out her sight. I find the money side of this odd. Emilio is running a successful tennis academy in Spain so presumably whatever money he made went into that enterprise. Has she no legal redress if this is true or is it easier to write a book ?

Whoever the idiot is doing the after match interviews for Eurosport, I've never seen more moronic questions. Bob and Ray would have a field day with this maroon and imbessil.

"When people say something like this do they really believe it's valid, or are they just helplessly addicted to some feeling being PC gives them."

I expect I'll regret this but I don't understand how such a comment was being PC? Also, probably PC is not what I immediately think of when I read Pete's pieces. :)

Yeah, Bobby. Probably the same in many sports. But it is sad.

Interesting take Pete. Hilarious account in Michael Mewshaw's Ladies of the Court on his attempts to interview Arantxa. Describes her as "as tightly wound as a two dollar clock."

jewell,

It is either PC or ignorant to suggest that winning 4 women's grand slams is a greater feat than reaching the quarter finals in a men's grand slam. It is just a plain and simple fact that there is far more and far greater competition in men's tennis. To make it as clear as I can: it's more impressive to reach the top 8 of a far deeper and competitive pool, than to reach number 1 in a comparatively weaker one. In two years I haven't lost a SET against all of my local fellow 40-somethings. By Bodo's logic, I guess I'm doing better than Djokovic the last two years.

And another thing, Bodo's saying that reaching the quarters is, "[not coming] within sniffing distance"? No big deal or anything, BS just bugs me so much that it sometimes compels me to blather on the internet. Sorry.

Tim, your comment regarding a 25-year old still living at home is very cultural. It may be a strange phenomenon in your culture, but it is the norm in Spanish culture (just as adding one's mother's maiden name is the norm in Spanish culture). In Spain it is common for unmarried children to remain at home with the family (and sometimes even married children will remain at home with one spouse's family). You'll often see generations of families living together (again if the home is large enough). Even in my culture (which is derived from British culture), unmarried children (girls in particular) normally remain living at home with parents until they marry. So it would be advisable to consider cultural norms before making disparaging comments. Just because something is not the norm in your own culture doesn't necessarily make it bad or undesirable. And every cultural norm (whether your own or another) has its potential downsides.

" Also, probably PC is not what I immediately think of when I read Pete's pieces. :)"

LOL, jewell. But I'd change "probably" to "definitely" -- and, most of the time, I'm happy that that's the case. ;-)

some guy, I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with you and side with Pete on this one. It's all relative. Pete's article is not comparing the women's game (or strength of field) to the men's, but rather the "relative" achievement of the Sanchez-Vicario family members. Arantxa is a Hall of Fame player, having won multiple Grand Slam titles in an era that pitted her against two of the greatest women players of all time in Steffi Graf and Monica Seles. While Emilio Sanchez's achievements were commendable, he's nowhere near Hall of Fame status, except perhaps as Spain's Davis Cup captain in the Nadal era. A quarterfinal showing in a Grand Slam tournament is a great accomplishment for 99.999% of humans on the planet, but it pales in comparison to 14 Grand Slam titles (four in singles, 10 in doubles and mixed doubles) and several Olympic medals.

The key word here is "relative" -- Arantxa's accomplishments cannot and should not be held to any standard of measure other than in comparison to her contemporaries in the women's game.

I mean, who are you kidding?

some guy - I will agree with you that Emilio Sanchez should get more credit for his tennis achievements - what, 4 slam doubles titles, 2 slam singles QFs, an Olympic doubles silver I think?

I strongly disagree with the rest of your comment, as I don't think even that impressive record stacks up against Arantxa's general record, but it's clear we will never convince each other. :)

Today's Caro- Ricardo Sanchez in ekstrabladet.dk

http://ekstrabladet.dk/sport/anden_sport/tennis/article1703155.ece

"I feel cheated because they said I could coach her the way I wanted to, but they wouldn't let me do it. In five weeks I went from being a coach to and adviser." This is from Marca, the Spanish sports daily.

"They got nervous when we didn't get immediate results.I had to coach the way they wanted, and stay in the background. I respect her father's way of working, but I don't share it. I think she can be number one again and win a Grand Slam with her father, me or even a florist. She has many excellent qualities and a great future. She needs to be more aggressive. She's lacking that compared to some of the others. It tried, but they wouldn't let me. She needs to be a racehorse, not a workhorse."

S-n-D,

It was Bodo who started with the improper comparisons. (and I guess my reductio ad absurdum choice of an improper comparison went unseen for some reason)

OK, thanks, I think I have my answer: some people really do believe such twaddle.

If we followed some guy's logic, there wouldn't be many women in the Hall of Fame.

some guy, please don't try to obfuscate the issue by putting words in Pete's mouth or insulting me and others who found your comment wholly unjustified.

Pete claimed that Arantxa's tennis achievements "overshadowed" those of her brother. This claim is accurate, based on a comparison of their professional tour results and on Arantxa's induction into the International Tennis Hall of Fame.

How anyone can see it any other way needs to be explained to me, because I cannot.

CWATC,
You shouldn't apologize to anyone by citing a story that has been published in all the major Spanish newspapers. Of course the outcome will be known in a few weeks or months but the Basque Tax Office is looking into it. I hope it all ends well.

Pete,
Arantxa is the youngest in her family. Her mother, Marisa, has stated that she will take legal action against Arantxa. Very sad story as everybody has pointed out already.

BP,
You are toast!

S-n-D,

Back at you buddy, I don't know why you can't see what I'm saying. Again, of course her achievements overshadowed her brothers: to achieve in her field is a MUCH easier proposition. Not nearly as many women go into athletics, thus the field is far more open. My field of other 40-somethings I happen to know is REALLY weak, that's why I have a far better rate of success than even a Djokovic. You agree that my comparing myself with Djokovic is absurd though, right?

What words did I put in his mouth? You yourself are again making the improper comparison that he DID make.

Why will we doubt about the credibility of the story? We have to imagine that it is true even if it took her so long to disclose it. This is not the first time that a parent betrays his son or his daughter. Unfortunately, not all people are good human beings, and people who commit fraud tend to think (and especially when it involves missapropiation of the assets of your children) that what they are doing is fine and that there is nothing wrong with that. They probably believe that the assets are theirs and they are doing a good job managing them.

Anyway, I think that it would be a little too malicious from her to invent this story just to justify herself before the Spanish Tax Authority.

Jewell

SCROLL

And on another note, funny that she complains that her mother would take care of her looks, if that is true, then she did an awful job in that area too because Arantxa looks much better now (example that picture) than when she was a tennis player. Arantxa while not a beauty looks much better and feminine now with her current wardrobe, hairstyle etc., I seen her feautred in parties etc and she looked very good.

"Not nearly as many women go into athletics, thus the field is far more open."

Some guy, that's a sketchy argument. Yes, the first part is true, but there are many more professional sports opportunitites for men, so as a percentage of the top athletic talent in the world, I'd venture to say that women's tennis gets a higher number than men's.

Since tennis is one of the few sports in which women can make $$$ comparable to men, the argument that there isn't the same competition is not as valid here in tennis as in, say, female pole vaulting.

Good Morning Everyone,

Its sad to see some posters taking aim at others over this post

I happen to agree with Slice and his first comments quite frankly there is a lot of 'things missing' surrounding some claims.I have always been of the opinion its best not to fully comment of offer a consise statement until all the facts are 100% clear.

Carol good to see you again...I also agree with your post.

Kwaku

May I saw you son is just adordable.I havent seen a photo of him for sometime now.What a engaging smile he has.

manixdk

Thanks for the link regarding Sanchez.I read a similar one yesterday.The whole coaching situation was brought up in conversation on the previous post.

some guy, I believe Sherlock and cotton jack have posed valid counterpoints to your most recent claims about the comparative weakness of the women's game. I don't see how you cannot see that what you are saying is beginning to sound more and more like sexism. As has been pointed out in hundreds of posts and comments here on this forum over the years, a player can only be measured against his or her field -- the field of players he or she actually faces or has faced. This basic tenet runs through all arguments that counter those who claim, for instance, that Roger Federer's 2010 French Open victory was less significant an accomplishment because Rafael Nadal had been beaten in the quarterfinals. It is the premise behind those who rightly argue that a solitary GOAT doesn't exist, because one cannot truly compare Laver to Borg or Sampras to Federer or Budge to Tilden or Kramer to Sampras because their respective eras produced wholly different competitors -- different fields against whom, and only against whom, any athlete can possibly be measured.

You can argue until you're blue in the face that the women's game doesn't measure up to the men's game (though you might want to run if you see Samantha Elin or Aussiemarg in a dark alley), but there is absolutely nothing that any player can do about these realities. So, what would you expect then? For Arantxa to have dominated the women's game to prove that she was as "good a player" as her brother, Emilio? That's so absurd it is laughable.

Geez with some of the comments in here, you think women are only good for one thing.. Give it a break, sexism is archaic.

Commisserations, AM. I see Lucie got some 'splainin' to do :)

Hunh. I agree with some guy taking offense/getting annoyed at Bodo's comparison of the siblings BUT for a very different reason. I hate comparisons, especially between siblings and especially when the siblings both put in effort.
Mens tennis is different from womens tennis. Sanchez won her titles on a different tour though they played the same game. Im sure if u put Emilio in a skirt he would have done just fine on the WTA.

That would be like saying Caroline Wozniacki was the WTA #1 for 2 years while her brother who plays professional football hasnt achieved the same world wide acclaim in his sport. I wasnt around to watch the Sanchez siblings but it sounds like Emilio did just fine for himself even if he didnt win one.

Why dont people commend good tennis players anymore? Only the greats?

And Bodo, there is a way to say something that is true without it seeming insulting. That is an art you have yet to acquire.

Colette

Oh well I see I wont be eating any bacon

I did pick Li Na has my second choice

I was under considerable pressure by Claire as well

Wait till I see her.pfft.

May I add one thoughtfull comment regarding the womens game

Thank goodness for Billy Jean King!

As without her the womens game would still be in the 'dark ages'

LOL...I just wrote a post extolling women's tennis. I of course
went into short skirts, legs, tight tops etc. etc. I went straight
for sex. I decided against it and deleted it only to find SamE's
post. I feel more guilty now than ever. It won't stop me lusting
after Sharapova's thighs but atleast there'll be a slight twinge
of regret mixed in with the lust.

You mean: "So, what would you expect then? For Emilio to have dominated the men's game to prove that he was as 'good a player' as his sister? That's so absurd it is laughable."

***Bodo*** invented the false comparison, not me. ***I*** said they ***aren't*** comparable.

"sexism"

Oh no, a brewing "thought crime" over here.

Yeah, those were great rationalizations by Sherlock and cotton jack, I wonder than why women's tennis is not as popular as men's. Oh yeah, "sexism". Uh huh. Most people find men's tennis to be generally more competitive, that's the main reason it's more popular.

Of course Samantha Elin or Aussiemarg or many of the 13 year old girls with tennis coaches at my park would probaby wipe the court with me. So what? All men can't beat all women at tennis, I'd say only 20,000 men or so can beat all women at tennis.

Indeed Colette, I was half way to joining a meeting when I saw Kerber took the first set 6-2,but in my mind she was going to mend the situation,alas,hum LI gone, Lucie gone, Maria you have got to be the queen over there now,oui, "reine de Paris"

gamesetmatch: "Mens tennis is different from womens tennis. Sanchez won her titles on a different tour though they played the same game. Im sure if u put Emilio in a skirt he would have done just fine on the WTA."

You do realize that this remark of yours is entirely sexist, just like some guy's remarks were, don't you?

1. Of course the men's game and the women's game are different. That's one of the primary reasons they have towo tours -- one for men and one for women.

2. The argument over whether the best man tennis player in the world would beat the best woman tennis player in the world is senseless. Even if the outcome is reversed, it's still senseless.

3. The only way to put Emilio is a skirt and allow him to play on the WTA tour is (a) if he were actually a woman, or maybe (b) he were to be officially recognized as a transgendered person. Again, sheer absurdity as it relates to this debate.

Here are the relevant facts:

1. Arantxa's career singles achievements include four Grand Slam titles and selection and induction into the international Tennis Hall of Fame.

2. Emilio's career singles achievements include no grand Slam titles, and a best of two quarterfinal showings.

3. The siblings were both exceptional doubles players, with significant achievements, but Arantxa's doubles accomplishments are more stellar.

What is there not to understand here?

Now, as for whether these facts have anything to do with Arantxa's alleged toxic familial situation is anyone's guess at this point.

Insufficient data provided to pass judgment.

Blushes

Oh to be 13 again:)

"I'd say only 20,000 men or so can beat all women at tennis."

As Ronald Reagan once famously said: There you go again.

Aube

I still have a strong feeling that Bartoli could surprise

Hmmm of course Claire and MA have picked her as well.

oh you're right Madame President, I forgot, Zee maid like CL use to call her,Marion is always dangerous as she is a ball of energy at times and hard to handle,ask my SEREBABY!lol!

Lest anyone is tempted to label me as PC, I will preempt you by saying that, frankly, I don;t really give a rats arse whether, in their primes, John McEnroe would have been whupped by Martina Navratilova. It's wholly irrelevant.

Also, let's ask Andre Agassi, who might know a thing or two about tennis as it's played on both tours, who's the best tennis player in his household. Hell, why don;t we ask him who's the best athlete in his household.....

Aube

I am not a fan of Bartoli's game

I needed to say that:)

Just ask my dear freind Slice...

BP = Some guy? :)

"Most people find men's tennis to be generally more competitive, that's the main reason it's more popular."

I'd be curious to see your polling data on these issues, Some guy.

I've got your back on that one, Aussiemarg. Mine!

I always liked this feisty little player and feel bad that she has been left penniless but not all families are saints.

Slice

LOL!

well we know her uneasy and unusual game is why she gives unprepared players trouble:victims with most casualties Henin and Serena lol cause she bounced them back from the same prestigious Slams,stunningly!

"There you go again"

OK, now we've come full circle, now you are openly pronouncing "thought crime!". It's like a drug that shoots into your brain when you take the supposed high ground, right?

Bjorn Borg, John Mcenroe, Thomas Muster, all today, or any kid on a college tennis team: who are you putting your money on with any of them vs Caroline Wozniacki? (Actually, I'd have to really study the college kids' games before I'd bet on them vs Sharapova or Azerenka, haha)

hahaha Slice-n-dice,I'm sure as any smart man Agassi will unequivocally say Steffi while jumping up and down,lol but more so also because it's the sheer truth and nothing but the truth...

geez,merry-go-round here we go!

The reason why most men can beat the women is simple and has nothing to do with better skills and everything to do with brute strength.

Well enough is enough no?

May I remind people there is a player her name is Margaret Court.

Just to give people a small reminder of her achievements on the tennis court.

Court has 62 GS titles to her name

24 GS titles....the rest are made up of doubles titles and mixed doubles titles...

Even today No Man or Woman player are close to the titles Court amassed during her playing career.

May I also add Court was left handed and chose to play right handed.I read in a interview Court said 'she wished she played left handed,cause she felt she could probably win more titles'.

Another fact with Court she was lifting weights with Men long before it became 'fashionable' Court said she knew to be a top player she needed to be strong in her body.

Court left the tour to have a child and came back and got her no 1 position back in the womens game....

Not bad for being a woman player hey?

I rest my case.

"in their primes"

!?! I'm sorry, for wasting our time, Slice-and-Dice.

And of course there is no way to accurately measure "competitiveness". Like "sexiness", you just know it when you see it. There is no way to conclusively argue about it.

And yeah, thanks gamesetmatch, that was pretty much it, Bodo insulted Emilio and it was irritating.

24 GS singles titles I should have said in my post.

Actually Madame President they opened the Pandora box coming up on Tennis Channel tackling the GOAT subject again I guess in some time soon,I'm so nervous already that I don't even want to know a thing about that debate yet I'm very curious...

It would be so much simpler if we rank everyone on more slams. more titles than any other back and forth reasoning like the merry-go-round that spins my head...sigh!Like whoever won the most GOAT then comes second third etc...

"The reason why most men can beat the women is simple and has nothing to do with better skills and everything to do with brute strength."

Yeah, like in Chess.

Agree with Pete on Sanchez, if I owed the IRS a lot of money, I would cry broke too. Also, like many athletes, they over spend and then wonder why they're broke. Well maybe your two houses and three cars is the answer??? I don't know but if I made as Pete said close to 60 million a year, then I should be broke about 10 years into my retirement. And we are all suppose to say poor Sanchez. Give me a break here!

"Bjorn Borg, John Mcenroe, Thomas Muster, all today, or any kid on a college tennis team: who are you putting your money on with any of them vs Caroline Wozniacki?"

some guy... I'm sorry to have to be the one to tell you this, but your question has absolutely no relevance or practical bearing on any matter put before us today, by me or Pete or anyone (save perhaps you and gamesetmatch). What would be the point of my measuring my tennis abilities against other 4.5/5.0 players who happen to be women?

Now, you might try to perversely twist the debate around by suggesting that there really is no physiological reason that the best female athletes should not be able to beat the best male athletes, but again I wouldn't see your point. Until men and women are entered into the same draw, it's a discussion that bears no fruit and which does not interest me.

*behold my forehead*

o i u y t
l k j h g

Colette

Are you playing 'scrabble'

I just read some of the comments about Caro and Piotr in the previous thread. Just to clear a few matters up, those who are close to them, like Michael Mortensen and a couple of Danish reporters, make no bones about the fact that Caro's the boss in the relationship. She's often disagreed with what he was telling her, and occasionally tells him to go and sit down while she talks things out with her hitting partner.

Caro's the breadwinner, and her dad's an employee.